Is kata similar to shadow boxing?

i thought katas are stylised self defence against imaginary attackers,then why is tkd katas are so lame useless in a real fight and the practioners of some katas looks like a stand-up comedian clowns when they demonstrate it(add the heeeyah!huuuuu!screaming in there)?|||Shadow boxing is done for cardio purposes (i.e. punching, moving, watching form for holes in the defense and such, getting used to the moving around that it takes in the ring). the only simularity is that they both can be done for some sort of conditioning. (Shadow boxing isn%26#039;t used exclusively, it gives you more cardio for a fight, helps you remain fluid in your motion and getting you used to the constant movement needed, but it doesn%26#039;t allow you to block punches better, or deliver strikes better, or take on multiple opponents, it is just for cardio and footwork purposes).





Kata is done for a variety of reasons, very few of them are done in the same way of Shadowboxing. Most people who think so either do not understand kata, or don%26#039;t understand Shadow boxing.





Some of the reasons for Kata:





One:it is a repeatable, teachable way to maintain and keep the techniques of an art.





Two: it conditions your body for the art, gets you used to sometimes awkward feeling moves, helps you build the muscle and body control to perform these moves, and to develop yourself that doing them feels natural. To help you get comfortable with the performing the techniques.





Three: Generally along with preserving the art itself, it contains techniques of art, including hidden ones or ones that may not necessarily be readibly noticed. More importantly it contains important fundamentals for some arts, stances, ways of moving, transitions between techniques that while under no stress can be tweaked to do properly, without having the stress of sparring associated with it. (In Kata if someone is dropping a hand or moving wrong they aren%26#039;t getting tagged). But there is important details in the kata, that can completely change a technique by understanding it totally.





Four: It teaches self discipline.





There are other things, personally I understand them and their uses, and think for somethings it is definately very good. I think they should be the basis of a teaching, but not the concentration of an entirety of a class. Meaning you go in, work on Kata, maybe some one step kata, etc. and that is all you do.





I think Kata is a great way to introduce techniques, then sparring/randori and a variety of other tools should be used to fully understand how and when to use a technique, and how to tweak it.





For example, Kata in Judo is used all the time, though not necessarily the multistepped way that there is in the system of Judo%26#039;s kata. But generally we show the kata version of a throw, so that a person can understand and feel every bit of the fundamentals. Then we tweak that version to show how you would do it in competetion, we have our students randori (free sparring) and let them make that technique their own. Later on for belt testing they have to do the kata version again. (usually performance in randori or competetion denotes when someone is ready to be advanced in rank.





So do techniques in any art that come from the kata, there may be some way to tweak it or change it to make it more applicable, but the fundamentals of the technique are within the kata, it needs to refined and tweaked for an individual so that they know how to do it for them.





So I think Kata can be a good tool when used properly with everything else. I think to make Kata the sole basis of your teaching is to deprive you students of how to learn how to effectively use the techniques contained within a Kata.





At least that is my take on it...|||Improperly used kata is lame and useless in a fight. Most schools that teach TKD unfortunately do not even understand the applications of the kata they teach. Kata is mock fighting and should not be %26quot;stylized%26quot;. The applications need to be understood and broken down for the students to understand. The individual moves and combinations need to be detailed and practiced with different opponents often. Kata is merely a way of practicing and learning the moves in detail. Kata is only one part of several tools to teach with and to learn. It is an important part none the less.


I would never endeavor to teach without using Kata. I%26#039;m not above altering some of the repetition in some of the really long Kata that repeat every move to the four winds. It is important to understand the application as soon as the student is ready.


Edit:


Judomofo has more patience with your question than me. He has broken it down better than I have heard on here ever.


Thanks to him for being patient and thorough!|||Judomofo has it down pretty well. Kata%26#039;s alone will not teach you to fight. You can learn to fight without Kata%26#039;s. But you will will have many more limitations to deal with odd situations.





Kata%26#039;s (or forms in Kung Fu) help put the moves and techniques into your muscle memory, where you do not have to think about the technique itsself, or what comes next. You can not fully understand this without sparring/fighting. Starting with drills taken from the forms, you learn what it is that you are actually doing, then when sparring, you learn when to use that technique.





It takes three main things to become a good fighter:





Techniques (forms or Kata%26#039;s)(no opponent)


Applications (Drills)(cooperative opponent)


Experience (Sparring)(resisting opponent)





Fighting TMA%26#039;s and MMA both use these same fundamental basis%26#039; to create a good, well rounded fighter.





Some TMA%26#039;s eliminate the last one, therefore they will not be as prepared as they think,.





Some MMA schools try to eliminate the first one, which limits their abilities in the other 2.





For example, A boxer will learn a short combo, say Jab Jab Hook. They will learn this as shadow boxing to get the combo in their muscle memory. Then they will use a willing helpfull opponent (or coach) to drill the combo against a moving person. Then they will practice it with a resisting opponent in a set environment. This is repeated over and over and over, giving the boxer a strong set of moves that have been learned so that the actual thought process during a fight is on the fight itself rather than the techniques.





This works with all Martial Arts, and is the way that they should be trained if you want to learn to use it to protect yourself.|||Lol, No. Kata is to Martial Arts what Shadow Boxing is to %26quot;Fighters%26quot;.


Katas incorporate defense moves. Knowing the defense move improves your form in Katas. Katas improve your defense moves. The idea of course is to train your muscles memories to react instinctivly when needed.


Lol, Yes, some forms of Power Breathing are %26quot;unsettling%26quot; at times however it serves it%26#039;s purposes as well in the art.|||Kata is like shadow boxing. It%26#039;s just the tkd katas rely more on principles than actual techniques that would work. (stopping a punch with a kick, blocking then counter etc.) Don%26#039;t forget that tkd is antiquated. Our opponents no longer wear armor, which is why a lot of the strikes in punches in both tkd, karate, kung fu sometimes seem to leave you so vulnerable.|||Katas are much like shadow boxing. You are practicing your techniques without a live opponent. Much like boxing you should also apply the same techniques with live partners. his is very valuable in the learning process.





I think Bushidomofo hit it on the head.|||That%26#039;s basically what it is... Choreographed shadowboxing. By doing Kata repetitively over a period of time, your techniques become ingrained in your muscle memory. The idea is, that when you re attacked, you ll automatically select the right move to defend yourself, without even thinking about it. Some people enjoy Kata and some don%26#039;t. Hardcore, traditional martial artists enjoy kata because it links them to martial arts traditions that go back for hundreds of years. If you%26#039;re not into tradition, then join an MMA gym. There%26#039;s something out there for everybody.